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| Classical Rosewood Neck? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3578 |
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| Author: | EBarajas [ Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:24 pm ] |
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I'm a classical builder that uses Cedar and Mahogany for necks. What are the benefits vs drawbacks to using Indian Rosewood for necks? I think one benefit would be greater sustain due to the density of the wood. One big drawback would be weight. Have any of you used rosewood for building necks? |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:47 am ] |
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Ed, One of my students insisted on a rosewood neck for a steel string guitar a couple of semesters ago. The idea of more sustain due to the density is something to think about although I didn't notice any more or less sustain on this guitar that I could attribute to the neck. What I did notice was the difficulty of carving the bugger! When complete the guitar was extrememly neck heavy as well. However, the look was quite stunning. IN the classical world it my be difficult to have someone accept the "new look" of a rosewood neck too. For my classical necks I prefer cedar. It is extrememly light and stable and easier to carve than mahogany. I would consider doing a laminated neck to stiffen it before doing a rosewood neck. Just some thoughts. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:36 am ] |
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I have seen a number of old lutes made using rosewood necks, I have one, an 8-course Heiber, in the pipeline myself that will use rosewood for the neck and half the back staves. It was going to be a burr sycamore back but I broke too many of the back staves while bending them so it will alternate. 
Colin |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:52 am ] |
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First guitar making book I ever read was by Author Overholtzer. He won some kind of national contest with his brazilian rosewood necked guitar. It was a very pretty thing, the entire box was brazilian, as was the binding. He claimed that you got more energy from the strings to the box using stiff heavy necks, and that he could make his necks thinner so that they would play easier. I know you can carry that little benefit too far but there it is. Overholtzer's opinion. Overholtzer's apprentice later had his own apprentice who formed Santa Cruz guitars. small world |
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| Author: | EBarajas [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:43 am ] |
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John, Overholtzer's book is where I first saw the rosewood neck. I understand the idea behind it but from what I understand Mr. Overholtzer was not considered a master builder by any means. I like alot of his ideas like the way he uses a table saw to profile the spanish heel, but I know how finicky classical players can be. I guess I could always balance the heavy neck with a heavy body such as maple.  I've heard Smallmann's classicals are pretty heavy with those laminated sides and plywood ring and stuff inside.
I thought classical players listened to the sound first asthetics later? |
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:46 am ] |
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John, I also have Overholtzer's book as one the first books I ever read on guitar building. I like his method of using the table saw for slotting the heel, but man, looking back now, he sure had some squirly ideas on how to do things. You are correct though, he did build some great guitars. The book is just funny though because he is so stubborn about how certain things need done...and there's no gray area. Everything is black or white. I recommend the book if nothing else, just to encourage some differnt thought on a lot of building procedures. He makes you think about why you should do something which is good IMHO. He has very good thought and reasoning for every step he accomplishes, even if the theory is wrong in some cases. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread into a book review. As a player, I think a rosewood neck would be too heavy to be comfortable. I like to have the guitar balance on my left leg in classical position without using any arms to support it. I would be afraid the heavy neck might throw my playing comfort and style way off. Cheers! John |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:20 am ] |
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I build classicals also. As an experiment, it would be interesting to see if a rosewood neck results in a noticeable increase in sustain. It would also be interesting to see if a metal rod imbedded in the neck had a similar result. One might be able to save some weight with the latter design, plus the guitar would retain its traditional appearance. I'll wager that somebody's already tried this. I think you're on the right track. That is, I'd first try asking around and thensearching the literature before building a guitar just to find out how the sustain was. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:57 pm ] |
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" he did build some great guitars." Do you base this statement on having played one? |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:45 pm ] |
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While a denser wood like rosewood would add sustain to a classical guitar, it would do so for a more norrow range of frequencies. Because of the lower amount of energy that is transmitted by lower tension strings, the lighter the overall weight of the instrument the more overall resonance the instrument will have. Maybe Alan Carruth can weigh in but an interesting experiment is if you attach a clamp to the headstock of a guitar you will immediately hear the increase in sustain but if you listen closely it will be more fundamental and much less overtones. For a Classical guitar you can see a big difference in overall sound just between two guitars, one with a mahogany neck and another with a spanish cedar neck. While there are alot of American builders that will use Mahogany on a classical neck, in Spain in general you will only find mahogany on student guitars and virtually all concert instruments will have cedar necks. There will always be exceptions...Yes Art Overholtzer built a good classical with a Brazilian rosewood neck (although BRW is much lighter than other rosewoods) and John Gilbert built very good classicals with Sitka tops but I suspect that has more to do with the skill of the builder and less about the materials |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:15 pm ] |
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I think that it only makes sense that a stiffer neck will absorb less of the strings energy, making more available for the top. However you may strengthen that neck, whether it be by using stronger (but heavier) wood, or graphite laminations, the stiffer the better. However, this generalization does not include truss rods which I do not believe increase the IM but just counterbalance tensions at a desired point. |
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